ComingSoon Senior Editor Brandon Schreur spoke to Josh Margolin about writing and directing 2024’s Thelma. Margolin mentioned how the movie is a tribute to his grandmother, working with June Squibb and Richard Roundtree, and extra. It will likely be launched on Blu-ray, DVD, and On Demand from Magnolia Dwelling Leisure on Tuesday, October 8, 2024.
“The characteristic directorial debut of Josh Margolin, Thelma is a poignant action-comedy that offers veteran Oscar nominee June Squibb (Nebraska) her first main function and options the ultimate efficiency of trailblazing actor Richard Roundtree (Shaft),” the synopsis for the film reads. “Squibb, who did most of her personal stunts within the movie, performs Thelma Publish, a feisty 93-year-old grandmother who will get conned by a telephone scammer pretending to be her grandson (Fred Hechinger, The White Lotus) and units out on a treacherous quest throughout Los Angeles, accompanied by an getting older pal and his motorized scooter, to reclaim what was taken from her.”
Brandon Schreur: Are you able to inform me a bit of bit about how this undertaking all form got here collectively and what your inspirations had been? I do know you had been clearly the screenwriter as nicely and I’ve seen you speak about how a few of it was based mostly on some real-life stuff. How private of a undertaking was Thelma for you?
Josh Margolin: It was a really private undertaking. It was impressed by a real-life rip-off that occurred to my grandma, which is fairly just like the one which’s within the film. In actual life, she fortunately didn’t find yourself sending the cash. We had been capable of type of intervene on the final minute, which was an ideal aid. However that entire incident and seeing my grandma type of duped in that approach — particularly as somebody who has at all times been so unflappable, sturdy, and type of unshakable — type of caught in my head and bought me considering. I began imagining what might need occurred if she had despatched it and mentioned that she needed to get it again. That grew to become type of the inspiration for telling this story and for the lens via which I form of ended up writing what is actually an ode to her spirit, her tenacity, and her characters. She’s somebody I’ve simply at all times beloved, admired, and been actually near my entire life.
It’s undoubtedly based mostly on an actual particular person, based mostly on form of an actual incident, after which type of imagined from there as a automobile to type of discover these concepts of autonomy, getting older, and issues that had been type of on my thoughts as I used to be watching her undergo that individual second in her life and reckon with that chapter.
Positive. You mentioned it completely. What I like in regards to the film is that it’s such a scary incident — that taking place, being scammed like that. However then you definately discover a lot humor in it, you discover a lot depth and coronary heart to it. I believed the best way you mixed all that was so cool and made it so enjoyable to observe. It feels prefer it shouldn’t be the happiest film on this planet, however I used to be having a good time watching it.
Oh, I’m so glad. I respect that. I wished it to have some catharsis and enjoyable and type of be of a chunk with how I skilled time with my grandma, who’s type of all of these issues. There’s heaviness, there’s actual grief and stakes to this second in her life, the issues she misplaced and the issues she’s dealing with. However she’s at all times so humorous and so energetic and verve. She’s simply an extremely alive particular person, even in moments when she is diminished or struggling. The film, to me, I simply wished it to have the ability to carry all these completely different sides. That’s what excited me about writing it and attempting to seize her in that approach.
I believe you do it nice, too. On prime of the writing, you’re additionally getting into the chair as director. It’s your first huge characteristic movie. How was that have? Was it terrifying?
It was a bit of little bit of each. It was enjoyable, it was scary, it was thrilling. In a approach, I really feel fortunate to have — it’s my first time directing a characteristic, however developing as a author, an editor, an actor, I really feel like I’ve gotten to the place there are such a lot of of hats surrounding that function. In some methods, it felt like an enormous change and, in different methods, it felt like such a well-recognized extension of what I’d already been doing. It doesn’t matter what, you’re going to really feel that stress and that pretend it ‘until you make it nature the place I used to be similar to, ‘Okay, I hope everyone will get on this practice with me and believes in the place we’re headed.’ It was good to have a bit of little bit of that muscle reminiscence, I believe, in order that I wasn’t getting into fully blind.
Even with that, new challenges come up each day, and also you encompass your self with a staff of people that have achieved it extra instances than you will have. That appears like an vital a part of the method, having a extremely, actually sturdy and trusted staff of collaborators with you.
I’m positive. I’m dying to speak to you about June Squibb on this film, too, as a result of she appears to be like like she’s having absolutely the time of her life with the ability to movie among the scenes in right here. What was it like working along with her and how much vibe did she deliver to the set?
She was nice. She actually was like the whole lot you’d hope she’d be and extra. Simply such a consummate professional. Like, simply so on it in a approach that type of forces everybody round her to up their sport, myself included — which was very nice to have, in a approach, as a result of you will have somebody on the middle of the undertaking who’s simply setting the bar actually excessive as an actor, as a collaborator, and as an individual. She was simply so enjoyable to work with. She’s so cool, she’s so matter-of-fact, sensible, to the purpose, and somebody who can simply lower via BS in a extremely efficient approach, each on display screen and simply as an individual. She simply form of evokes a sure honesty and sure frankness as a result of she’s so open in that approach, and to the purpose about issues. I discover that basically refreshing; type of a superb, gravitational homebase for the film.
She was actually great. She by no means dropped a line, which is fairly loopy for an actor of any age. She actually simply was so disciplined and gave a lot to the film. It was actually inspiring to see and only a enjoyable particular person to collaborate with. She was only a nice vitality on set.
She looks as if it. You may inform she’s having plenty of enjoyable on this film.
She was having enjoyable. She beloved driving that scooter. Anytime she bought an opportunity to be on that scooter, I believe she was at her happiest.
Yeah? I used to be going to ask you about that, too, as a result of within the months and weeks main as much as this film’s launch, I bear in mind seeing headlines about how June Squibb wished to do all her personal stunts within the film. I believed it was so humorous the way you type of countered that with all of the Tom Cruise and Mission: Unimaginable stuff, that was a hoot. I’m questioning, was there ever a second the place June Squibb was like, ‘That is one thing I actually wish to do, this type of stunt within the film’ and also you needed to be like, ‘Ehhh, let’s have a look at this a bit of nearer’?
That’s a superb query. I believe there have been in all probability a handful. She was fairly sport for something, which was superb, and she or he did much more than we thought she was going to do. We had an ideal stunt staff — our coordinator, Ryan Sturz, and her double, Heidi Pascoe — they had been very concerned, even when [Squibb] was performing the stunts they usually had been type of teaching her via. That was lucky, to have an ideal gang round her.
I’m attempting to suppose if there was one particularly she wished to do and we had been like, ‘Ehh.’ There’s a bit of half the place the scooter lifts up, one of many wheels lifts up, whereas she’s type of veering round a nook. That was not her, luckily. However I’m attempting to recollect if she was attempting to make a play for that one or not.
There have been undoubtedly components the place it was like, ‘June needs to strive.’ And I believe that was undoubtedly no less than one of many instances the place we had been like, ‘We’re not going to do this.’
I imply, it is smart. However nonetheless, the scooter simply appeared like a lot enjoyable, I used to be jealous.
It was enjoyable. I’ll inform you, I might typically drive it round in between takes simply once I was attempting to suppose or brainstorm. It was an ideal factor to have so I might be like, ‘I’m going to do a lap across the block, I’ll be again.’
Yup. That will have completely been me, too. I’ve to ask you about Richard Roundtree on this film, too, as a result of he’s one other nice, enjoyable presence. Clearly, while you had been engaged on the film you didn’t comprehend it was going to be his last efficiency like this. What’s it like watching it now, seeing him in right here? Is it surreal in any respect? I imply, he’s so good in it.
He’s a beautiful actor and a extremely beautiful man. I really feel actually fortunate that we started working with him and spend time with him. I believe, watching it now, it simply all has a bit of extra weight, not directly, with him. He’s already bringing a lot pathos and coronary heart and vulnerability to that half, particularly to these scenes the place he type of opens up and will get to speak about his expertise along with his spouse, getting older, and all of that. It already had type of a melancholiness to it, however I believe it feels all of the extra unhappy, in some methods, than it did, simply understanding that it ended up being his final function.
We didn’t know he was sick. I don’t even know if he knew that he was sick on the time. Or if he even was, or if all of it type of got here after the actual fact. I really feel like there was some consciousness in him, simply in the place he was in his life, that he was type of dealing with this new chapter. I believe that was one thing he introduced into the character and into the film. It’s simply much more poignant and weak now that we all know the place he was at in his journey. It was at all times actually affecting to observe his efficiency and, now, much more so.
Positive. And such as you mentioned, it’s unhappy, however I additionally love the way it’s not a downer film. He appears to be like like he’s having plenty of enjoyable, too. It’s a celebration of life, it appears like. I like the strategy to it.
It’s. I believe he had a good time. He and June additionally bought alongside very well, which was fortunate. They had fun collectively and I believe had plenty of mutual respect. Richard was so enjoyable to have on set. He was only a candy, warm-hearted, humorous, form man that everybody favored hanging out with. He had a cigar tent, which was additionally enjoyable. He’d smoke the cigars on set in his tent after which he’d come out
Oh, that’s superior.
It was very cool. We had been like, ‘We’ve bought to get Richard his tent,’ so we bought it arrange.
That’s so superior. One other factor I like about Thelma is there are these huge, laugh-out-loud moments the entire approach via, it’s so humorous and charming. However there’s additionally an entire lot of coronary heart. I believe certainly one of my favourite scenes was when June Squibb was alone at evening, she falls down, and then you definately see Richard Roundtree come and decide her up. I believed that was actually touching. I do know you edited the movie as nicely. I’m curious what it was like attempting to stability the comedy, the emotion, and the center. Was it laborious to search out that candy spot the place you’re hitting all three completely?
Properly, thanks for saying that, I actually respect that. I believe that was at all times the problem of the film. The factor that excited me was additionally the factor that scared me about it — attempting to ensure the comedy, the human drama of it, and the style components of it felt like of a chunk. That they had been all motivated by character and one thing natural. It was plenty of sanding down over the course of the method, be it within the script, on set, or particularly in put up, such as you had been saying, with the edit. It was at all times in regards to the ratios and the way lengthy we’re spending on this feeling vs. how lengthy we’re spending on this one. How lengthy can we dip into right here earlier than we now have to search out our approach again out?
It was fascinating to see, because the film bought tighter and because the edit bought shorter, issues began to really feel like they had been affecting one another extra. When there’s a bit of extra time between, Level A and Level B began to really feel a bit of extra distant — no matter vitality you’re getting from over right here, it didn’t really feel prefer it was pushing us all the best way to over right here. As issues bought tighter and nearer collectively, I believe that helped. That and the rating did loads simply when it comes to ensuring it felt like the whole lot was of a chunk and that every second was motivating the following. If the following, regardless of the taste of that subsequent second was — when the film was working, it felt prefer it was when these moments had been type of feeding one another. Discovering the form undoubtedly took some trial and error; sanding down, slicing one thing, placing one thing again, slicing one thing else. It was a strategy of little changes over the course of some time, which bought us the place we landed. However, to your level, that was undoubtedly at all times prime of thoughts and one thing we had been at all times attempting to stability and concentrate on.
I’m positive that took plenty of work. That doesn’t sound straightforward.
Yeah, it was undoubtedly a course of.
Type of on the identical be aware, I wished to speak to you and ask you in regards to the grandson character, too, performed by Fred Hechinger. I believed he was nice. He type of, what we’re speaking about, balances the center and the humor. Once you first see him, you consider all these clichés — he’s simply going to be the grandson with no job who’s simply out right here making jokes. The extra the film goes on, you possibly can see the love and affection he has for his grandma and the way a lot he actually cares about the whole lot and what’s occurring in life. I used to be questioning the way you went about constructing that character as a result of I believed he was actually nice.
Oh, I’m glad. Fred is simply such a incredible actor who actually simply brings a lot to the whole lot he does. He’s so humorous but additionally so pure and has plenty of depth, intelligence, and nice instincts. He’s only a actually nice man and an ideal actor. I used to be fortunate to have Fred.
It’s humorous, we did re-write the film for Fred, principally. That function was initially round 30-something and at a special transitional second of some burn-out and attempting to determine what’s subsequent. Once we say Fred in The White Lotus, we had been like, ‘He’s so excellent for this.’ I simply felt like a kindredness with him watching him; I relate to him, I believe he’s so good, and I believe he’d be excellent for the function. Fortunately, he mentioned sure.
What was good with that character was it was form of a method to categorical and dramatize plenty of the emotions, frustrations, and anxieties that I had rising up and had particularly in relation to my grandma getting older and dealing with this new second in life. Somebody who I had been so near immediately appeared barely much less invincible than they did and that type of shaking up my notion of what the journey of her life and my life may be. I believe, not directly, although we’re clearly all mortal, I used to be similar to, ‘My grandma, she’s so stable, nothing can throw her off in that approach.’ Watching her come up in opposition to the inevitable trials and tribulations of age, kicked off by this incident, undoubtedly set off my very own fears about my very own life and my very own means to search out my approach via issues. That character grew to become a method to write to these real anxieties and fears of my very own, categorical them, and hope they’ll mirror hers in some methods so these characters can type of be mirror photos of one another. They’re at very completely different moments in life however, equally, each in crucial transitional moments.
Positive. I like that, that’s superior. I bear in mind first listening to about Thelma again in January when it was enjoying at Sundance. That’s once I first began seeing articles and listening to all this buzz about it. I do know it bought all types of optimistic critiques when it was popping out of there. Do you bear in mind what your response was like while you screened Thelma for the primary time and everyone seems to be loving it?
It was a curler coaster as a result of I used to be like — we had achieved plenty of check screenings for mates, mates of mates, prolonged buddies, and stuff. So, in some methods, we’d proven it to lots of people, we’d been getting good suggestions and sensible notes. One thing about after we had been truly at Sundance and we had been screening it, I believe it hit me like midway via the place I used to be like, ‘Oh god. Oh no. Individuals are going to see this. I hope folks prefer it.’
It was simply this humorous curler coaster the place I used to be so in it, I don’t know the way it’s going, I can’t inform. All I’m listening to is, ‘Is the quantity too low, is it too excessive? Is it enjoying, is that this proper?’ Then I’d say, the evening of as critiques begin popping out, you begin studying some they usually’re like, ‘They’re type of liking it. Did they prefer it? This man favored it, this particular person was blended, this particular person was actually into it.’ You begin to get an image, however I believe not till, fairly actually, a number of days after is once I can see with a bit of extra readability that persons are liking the film. That’s nice, that’s an enormous aid. That’s when it hit me. I believe the evening and day of, there was a lot taking place on a regular basis that I used to be simply type of on the curler coaster of, ‘The place is the ground, right here? What’s the baseline?’ As soon as I might see the mud settle a bit is once I went, ‘Oh, I believe this truly went nicely, that’s so thrilling!’ I used to be capable of course of that within the following days.
So, day one was simply type of being alongside for the journey and the curler coaster of emotion of all of it. As issues settled in, I used to be like, ‘Oh, cool, thank God, I’m actually joyful that individuals had been liking it.’
I’m positive that’s a superb feeling when that does hit.
It was a extremely, very nice feeling. I used to be very grateful that it was connecting with folks.
Undoubtedly. What I believe is so cool, too — and I’m positive you didn’t know this while you had been engaged on it and possibly not even at Sundance — however the film was launched in June. Launched in theaters in June. I simply suppose it’s superior how there’s an motion film with a 94-year-old girl in theaters similtaneously all this large, blockbuster superhero stuff. It’s superior how that labored out with counter-programming and all, however that is simply an expertise you can have on the motion pictures this summer season.
I used to be so enthusiastic about that, too. Magnolia was so sensible about how they launched it and treating it like a summer season tentpole on a smaller scale, clearly. However giving it that very same placement and treating it like a summer season motion film — it has different issues occurring and it’s a twist of that concept — however they had been actually bullish about simply taking a shot with the film theatrically, and I’m so glad they did. They actually went to bat for us and I believe it was such a wise second to place the film out. I’m so glad that you just skilled it that approach as a result of that was the hope, that it’d really feel like counter-programming however nonetheless be this summer season film that may make folks go, ‘Oh, there’s an motion film with June Squibb because the lead?’ And it really works.
And it completely works. I simply have yet another query for you right here, Josh, however you’ve bought Thelma that was in theaters and is popping out on bodily media, now. Do you will have any plans for something after this, so far as directing goes? Or are you simply taking a while to take this all in?
Somewhat little bit of each. I’m writing a brand new film, I’m form of within the midst of drafting that. I’m within the course of. I’m again within the writing section, once more, which has been enjoyable. It’s enjoyable to type of begin digging up one thing new. Hopefully extra on that quickly, however proper now, precisely, I’m again within the writing section and attempting to jot down this different film that I’d like to direct. Hopefully, that can begin coming collectively within the subsequent little bit.
Because of Josh Margolin for talking about Thelma.
